bipin ([info]bipin) wrote,
@ 2008-08-21 21:44:00
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mind your language

We have no qualms denying the existence of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. Why do we have trouble stating that we have no god?

*

My recently acquired fascination for linguistics hit a rather unexpected road-bump last evening. For months now, the charm, for me, has been in excavating word-roots - as you brush away the dust, masks of past civilizations emerge: tales of origin and evolution so wondrous that they seemed to encompass entire bed-time stories. As you swim in the waters of Sri Lanka and trudge up the mountains of Laconia, you for once see patterns in the darkness - word-roots light up like fallen stars in the dark ocean of vocabulary.

But all that's when I'm not at work.

At work, I've inched my way from an engineering position to one in a 'pure sciences' team. The evocative call of engineering a solution no longer entices me like it used to. While the language I use to work the computer has evolved - from the flamboyance of C++ to austerity of Bash scripts; surprisingly, my 'human language', has also transformed, morphing from a declarative 'The data proves that A causes B', to a less sure 'the data tells us that A causes B' to a feeble, almost apologetic 'the data seems to suggest that there exists a correlation between the two variables'.

The evolution, in retrospect, has been affected by the people I interacted with - the smarter you were, the more cautious, it seemed, you would be at stating things with certainty. Claims were padded with qualifications, and probabilities softened what were once concrete conclusions. Intelligence apparently lay in the recognition that things were never absolute - that the cognizance of subtlety was the cornerstone of wisdom. The notion seems to manifest everywhere really - in art which evolves from the overt, upturned semi-circular smiles on drawings stuck on refrigerator doors to the is-she-really-smiling Mona Lisa; in love stories, where an undercurrent of romance evokes a far stronger reaction than an in-your-face rain dance; and even in stygian world of insults - the intelligent often supplanting patent hostility and physical aggression with the delicate sharpness of sarcasm.

To be circumspect about what you know about the world, or at least state it in such parlance, it seems, is the ticket to sagacity. It's little surprise then, that it's the mode now to declare on any issue, one's position to be one of neither extreme.

*


Language has its laugh in the end though: just when you believe that your perspective controls your vocabulary, it comes right back and 'au contraire's you. It has been long argued that the truth is diametrically opposite to our expectation - what you perceive is decided by the language you use and not the other way around. Last evening, I read one of the most fascinating experiments in linguistics perhaps, where it was shown that people were able to remember and distinguish colors for which they had names in their mother-tongue better than for those they didn't have words for. If the word doesn't exist in your head apparently, you brain ignores that facet of reality.

Read that again, for the implications of the assertion are quite startling. You don't see anything that you don't have a word for. You brain only perceives things that are present in its vocabulary.

Taken to its logical conclusion, if you didn't have a word for black, you probably wouldn't see it. I find that very hard to swallow - it just seems so counter-intuitive. But then I got thinking: was there an experience or a notion or an object that I discovered only after I learnt a word for it?

I learnt French (and a smattering of Norwegian) sometime over the last couple of years, and while doing so, came across a most beautiful word - 'enchanté' (pronounced somewhat like 'on-shan-they', only the 'on' is more nasal). It's a eccentric word, in that it doesn't have an equivalent in English (or any of the other languages I know), and reserved for men to use when they're introduced women. The closest English greeting is 'charmed', I imagine, but as if one had mixed it with dollops of the word 'enchanted'.

The greeting itself has a vein of unstated sexuality in it, something that the prudish English never bought into I guess. You've got to imagine it being said while delicately holding your paramour's hand, as the tips of her lips curve ever so slightly upward.

Here's the catch though: I know that it's only after I learnt the word that I began to notice the sexual spark that I felt when I met her - that rush of chemistry when the tips of your fingers first make contact with hers, in a kind of latent desire, if you must. You will too, from now on - the word's been introduced into your vocabulary - and now your experience of reality has forever changed.

*


But that's just one side of argument.

I think the crux of today's intellectual indolence is directly attributable to the fact that we're now using neutral language more than ever before. Our unsure language has cast us in a brain that can house only unsure thought. No longer is it acceptable to state your claim. To aver that one side of the argument is right, and that the other is wrong.

It is unsurprising then, that the voice of the atheist, for example, is dismissed as hubris, an overbearing arrogance characteristic only of the ignorant. The unqualified refutation of the presence of a supreme being seems to suggest naïvete, an unnecessary presumption of certainty.

Instead, it is prudent to state that you're agnostic. The agnostic position, in debates over dinner, is held up by what boils down to three shields: the first which could be mistaken to be our nation's manifesto - that of 'live and let live', or 'why say something that might offend someone?'; the second which insinuates that the notion of God is one that is necessary for the 'common man' to lead a moral life; and the third - a rather serpentine piece of logic that suggests that since we can't prove that God does not exist, we ought to give both propositions equal credibility.

Of course, each of these are easily countered, so much so that no theologian will ever present them as valid arguments any more: the policy of 'live and let live' is irrelevant to the human endeavor of understanding the world and seeking the Truth; the fact that the greatest philosophers produced by our country - Buddha, Mahavira, Vivekananda and more recently Krishnamurti - were all atheistic in their own ways and yet all appealed to the 'common man', fully aware that the masses could handle the no-god conjecture and; the placement of onus on someone to prove a negative being known to be a specious line of argument - one can never prove that something - Santa Claus or an invisible hippo with a red-bow in your living room - does not exist.

So even though you'd hardly hear anyone claim that they weren't atheistic of Ra, the Egyptian Sun God, or Helios or Thor, we refuse to state that we're atheistic about the current version of God(s). As Dawkins said, "We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." We have no qualms denying the existence of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. Why do we have trouble stating that we have no god?

It has been argued that the agnostic position then, is one of weakness - that they aren't able to commit to one stand - the theist's or the atheist's - only because they haven't the strength to convince their brains. I argue that our perception of the world, because of the unsure vocabulary we've inherited, has changed. And that, and not intellectual laziness, is the reason that we find the agnostic position attractive.

*


Our generation has adopted a language which makes it impossibly difficult to accept the position of an extreme. We are a generation who've been hit by the plague of compromise, of hedging our commitments. We deify the middle-road, and perceive anyone straggling it to be somehow lost.

We place little importance on self-belief, caving in to the whims of the majority. The trump card of tolerance triumphs over the virtue of honesty. We've surrendered our duty to state what we believe to be true, instead wallowing is convenient and what is socially acceptable.

*


As you swim in the torrent of words some evenings though, you notice that sometimes, the most common of them catch you by surprise. The courageous beauty of the word 'conviction' stands out strong to me. Repeat it to yourself for a few times, and you'll notice it grow on you, as if just saying it aloud magically empowers you.

It is unfortunate that such a beautiful word is being lost to mean a vile concoction of 'intolerant' and 'uninformed' today. Perhaps future generations will stare at, puzzled at the apparent negative connotation that the word caught on somewhere in the end of the 20th century.

It's sad that that will be our contribution to etymology.



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[info]fugney
2008-08-22 10:45 am UTC (link)
>>It is unsurprising then, that the voice of the atheist, for example, is dismissed as hubris, an overbearing arrogance characteristic only of the ignorant. The unqualified refutation of the presence of a supreme being seems to suggest naïvete, an unnecessary presumption of certainty.

Instead, it is prudent to state that you're agnostic. <<

How many times must we atheists go over this? Drop it, drop it, drop it!!

The rest is Orwellian, and I'm not sure I agree. Languages evolve, and words are invented to fill in the gaps.

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 04:43 pm UTC (link)
The rest is Orwellian, and I'm not sure I agree.
What does that mean? I'm woefully ignorant of Orwell, having read just his 1984 and nothing else.

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[info]fugney
2008-08-22 04:44 pm UTC (link)
If you've read 1984, you should know exactly what I'm talking about.

(Hint: newspeak)

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Ah, I was mistaken. I thought you were referring to Atheism. I didn't realize you were talking about the modification of language bit.

I remember finding the 'if you can't say it, you can't think it' bit of newspeak quite hard to accept. I still, intuitively, desperately hang onto the thread that our outlook is tinged by our language, not defined by it.

Perhaps Orwell's case was different, since the state enforces the modification. I don't know.

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[info]yathin
2008-08-22 03:54 pm UTC (link)
The Western Screech Owl and the Eastern Screech Owl are two different species of birds. Until recently they were thought to be just one species, until molecular biology and the calls of the birds showed them to be different - different enough to split them into species. The birders who died before this discovery was made believed it was one species, because that's what the books said. The birders who will see this bird now will know what the current world understands about species. The birders of the future may well be seeing a Southwestern Screech owl and a Northeastern Screen Owl along with the two that exist today?

The point is someone's done the "research" for you and you take a stand by either believing in it or not. Perhaps you believe in Darwin's book just like some believe in John, Mathew or Mark's book? Perhaps they are all wrong and those Scientology folks are right? Or the Mormons?

Some believe they'll never know and they don't care. Call it weakness, ignorance or naivety. Or Agnosticism.

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 04:40 pm UTC (link)
The point is someone's done the "research" for you and you take a stand by either believing in it or not. Perhaps you believe in Darwin's book just like some believe in John, Mathew or Mark's book?
Two things:
1. Darwin described the theory of evolution. He had little to do with atheism. One can accept his theory without being an atheist, and vice-versa.
2. As much as us humans would like to believe, our belief systems have little to do with the Truth. We do not define the Truth. For example, even if every single human being on the planet was somehow convinced that gravity did not exist, a monkey that fell off a tree would still accelerate toward the ground. It's not a question of whether we 'believe' in gravity or evolution.

Some believe they'll never know and they don't care
Those are two completely different things. If you claim that you don't care, then I have no issue. You're entitled to your endeavors, and if the subject does not interest you, then go ahead and ignore it.
However, saying that we will never know is vastly different. Which is it?

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[info]yathin
2008-08-22 05:26 pm UTC (link)
I never said anything about Darwin for theism or atheism. It's just another book like that others which people believe in - theory of evolution if you want to call it.

'Gravity' is what we believe in today. The ones of the old ages believed the earth was flat and had no reason (or proof) to question it?



> Those are two completely different things.

It isn't. If you're flying blind, you'll never know if you'll hit a wall or keep flying on until it's all over.

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 06:03 pm UTC (link)
Ok, perhaps 'belief' means different things to us :) I think using 'belief' to describe gravity is just wrong (as I described in my example above), but I can see why it might not be incorrect to you. Whether we believe that the Earth is flat doesn't matter to the reality out there. The Earth is a certain shape, and no belief system can change that.

If you're flying blind, you'll never know if you'll hit a wall or keep flying on until it's all over.
I'm sorry, but I didn't quite follow. What are you trying to say?

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[info]yathin
2008-08-22 06:08 pm UTC (link)
> The Earth is a certain shape, and no belief system can change that.

Isn't that like agnosticism? ;)


> What are you trying to say?

Doesn't matter.

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[info]floopilot
2008-08-22 06:52 pm UTC (link)
> The Earth is a certain shape, and no belief system can change that.

Isn't that like agnosticism? ;)


Exactly what I was going to say!! I'm an atheist but I do recognize that atheism is a belief in itself (and not the absolute truth).

Agnostics operate exactly as you describe about earth above -- whether we believe a supreme puppeteer exists or not does not matter to the reality out there. So why waste energy proving or disproving these beliefs? As a corollary "knowing" what the reality is nothing but holding another belief. Which brings us to Yathin's point: true agnostics think we will never really "know" and/or don't care.

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 07:11 pm UTC (link)
Maybe I'm completely missing the point you guys are making. My example of the Earth's shape wasn't a comment on (a)theism, but on that our belief does not change reality. I see no connection to agnosticism whatsoever.

atheism .. [is] not the absolute truth
That's what I'm interested in finding out :) Why do claim 'not the absolute truth'?
If you're going to counter with 'we ca never be absolutely certain', then you must also accept that we can never state *anything* with a 100% certainty. When someone says 'god does not exist', you need to apply the same 'within the limits of everyday certainty' that you would apply to the statement 'an invisible hippo with a red bow and shiny bling-bling teeth does not exist in my living room'.
Hinging your stand on a requirement for absolute certainty makes any argument pointless.

So why waste energy proving or disproving these beliefs?
Because we're fundamentally curious about the Universe? Isn't that enough? Does it always have to affect us personally? Why do we launch rockets into space? Why do we try and understand whether dolphins can communicate?

true agnostics think we will never really "know" and/or don't care.
I'm not sure your clubbing of the 'don't cares' with the agnostics will be well accepted. Agnostics are NOT people who wish to ignore the issue.

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[info]smokediceman
2008-08-22 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Atheism is not a belief in itself. If anything it's a lack of belief without evidence.
There is a big difference in believing there is no God/FSM/puppeteer and in not believing there is a God/FSM/puppeteer. The former is yet another belief in itself. Atheism is the latter and demands a burden of proof before something is accepted.


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[info]floopilot
2008-08-22 10:02 pm UTC (link)
ok, now I'm confused. what's the difference between the two?

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[info]purely_narcotic
2008-08-22 07:11 pm UTC (link)
As you swim in the waters of Sri Lanka and trudge up the mountains of Laconia...
or even stand by and admire Sappho's Lesbos, perhaps?

If the word doesn't exist in your head apparently, you brain ignores that facet of reality...You don't see anything that you don't have a word for. You brain only perceives things that are present in its vocabulary.

No wonder no one knows what I'm talking about when I point out to that translucent layer of fat that I see in fish and chicken when I peel away the skin or just pull away the flesh from the bones! Neologisms come in handy, but then again only so many of us understand what is being expressed. Sigh.


Wordle is <3!

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 10:23 pm UTC (link)
No wonder no one knows what I'm talking about
Ahem. Finally, we have the Truth :D

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[info]purely_narcotic
2008-08-22 10:24 pm UTC (link)
...which is not to say that it does *not* exist.

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[info]smokediceman
2008-08-22 09:52 pm UTC (link)
...I argue that our perception of the world, because of the unsure vocabulary we've inherited, has changed. And that, and not intellectual laziness, is the reason that we find the agnostic position attractive.
Agnosticism is not a weakness that prevents from committing to any one stand and the claim that language that encourages non-absoluteness, encourages is therefore moot.
What you describe assumes there are certain absolute truths and that agnostics refuse to commit to one of them. Agnosticism is actually a committed stand to the belief that certain truths are unknowable. The distinction is analagous to the distinction between frequentist and Bayesian statistics. I submit that one's strength of conviction is independent of which school of thought one subscribes to.

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[info]bipin
2008-08-22 10:25 pm UTC (link)
I certainly agree that agnosticism isn't a by-product of the weakness of the mind. That was the essence of my (rather long and convoluted) post, really.

What I did try to propose is that our language devoids our world of sharp edges (or at least encourages it), and that view has made the position of the agnostic - the non-extreme - more attractive.

Agnosticism is actually a committed stand to the belief that certain truths are unknowable.
This isn't related to what I just said above, but I've always been curious why you (if you're agnostic, that is) believe so. How does one decide which truths are unknowable?
Are all statements that can not be proved (one way or another) classify into the 'unknowable'? Is the existence of anything invisible unknowable? Is the fact that the Sun rises in the east unknowable, because it might not tomorrow? Is the fact that a object under free-fall will accelerate toward the ground unknowable, because it hasn't been tested everywhere on the Earth?

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[info]smokediceman
2008-08-26 01:39 am UTC (link)
What I did try to propose is that our language devoids our world of sharp edges (or at least encourages it), and that view has made the position of the agnostic - the non-extreme - more attractive.
I'm not sure I agree with the viewpoint that being agnostic is more or less extreme than atheism but I sort of understand what you are getting at.

This isn't related to what I just said above, but I've always been curious why you (if you're agnostic, that is) believe so. How does one decide which truths are unknowable?
I'm not agnostic but I guess it's like Heisenberg's principle. Perhaps agnostics believe that the act of seeking the truth changes the truth.
My scientific training tells me that atheism is the only theory (or non-theory) that pans out, but much to my dismay, I am not still completely un-indoctrinated from many concepts that have no firm footing in science. I conveniently blame it on childhood brainwashing.

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[info]whatnet
2008-08-23 04:04 pm UTC (link)
About the Russel quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

I need to read your post in more detail

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[info]bipin
2008-08-23 05:36 pm UTC (link)
Great link! I don't know why they were awarded the Ig Nobel prize though - I think it was a valid study :)

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[info]whatnet
2008-08-25 06:13 am UTC (link)
I thought the Ig Nobels were for studies that looked funny 'on the surface'.

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[info]threefragsleft
2008-08-25 05:35 pm UTC (link)
We have no qualms denying the existence of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. Why do we have trouble stating that we have no god?

Sometimes, I wonder why there are so many atheists around. Are so many people actually comfortable leaving everything that happens to them and around them to mere probability, maybe chaos, even ? Maybe believing in god or some kind of supreme power is simply psychological convenience. In a state of absolute helplessness, where do you find your 'answers' ?

For the record, you already know I am atheist.

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[info]anomalizer
2008-08-26 07:45 pm UTC (link)
You don't see anything that you don't have a word for. You brain only perceives things that are present in its vocabulary.

Rubbish!
If that were true, then none of our experiences would be inexplicable or indescribable since we would have failed to peceive those things to begin with.

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[info]bipin
2008-08-26 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Very interesting. I partly agree with you, but I'm not as emphatic any more.

The argument usually provided against the view is "if you didn't have a word for it, how did you think it in the first place?". How do you know you're feeling jealous, if you didn't have a word for it?

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Both of you are right
[info]god.subodh.com
2008-08-28 05:22 am UTC (link)
Depends, whether you are left brained or right brained ;-) As an example(irrespective of whether one knows the word); a 6 month old baby who knows nothing about words can still make it amply clear when he/she is angry. Of course, as the brain gets more organized, it gets to know the difference between ‘angry’ and ‘irritable.’ Likewise, an example for the opposite (You don't see anything that you don't have a word for); when you are learning a new language, at least in the initial stages, you literally word convert from the new language to your mother tongue to understand what it means .. to get angry or not when somebody curses you simply depends upon whether you understand the feeling and the translation.

--Subodh

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Re: Both of you are right
[info]anomalizer
2008-08-28 05:55 pm UTC (link)
I think there is a huge difference between articulation and perception. You can't articulate what it actually felt like when you saw someone's head blown off by a sniper bullet. Chances are you can even do an "equality comparision" of another incident i.e. be able to say if you felt the same thing or not without still being able to articulate what it felt like.

The problem with learning language again is one of perception. If you were to take the example of eskimoes and their vocabulary for "white", you might be surprised that it is a not a language problem. Pretty much every saree my mother buys appears "beige" to me. To her however, she can tell the difference very clearly. If each of those supposedly different colours had a different name, she'd use it and I'd still end up calling it "beige" not because my reprotoire of words is deficient but because I cannot fundamentally tell the difference.

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[info]adityaferrari
2008-08-31 12:47 pm UTC (link)
Dude cant you write something that i can understand :)

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[info]bipin
2008-09-01 04:31 am UTC (link)
It's tish to write nonsense with big words. As you once told me, "if you can't convince, at least confuse" :D

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